Monday, August 30, 2010

Keep Sieges

In response to Wasdstomp's, RvR Pack 101: Keeps, I'd like to continue the discussion.  For whatever reason this really seemed to ignite a fire in my pants and I had to get my thoughts out to everyone.  I definitely agree with Wasdstomp in that the current mechanic needs changing, but I disagree about the way he is proposing to do so. 

Wasdstomp proposes that the current keep siege mechanic be changed to resemble more of a city siege.  While it may be a good change, wouldn't that make the current city feel stale and overdone?  Sieging a city is the end game at the moment, and should have a feel different than anything else you are to experience in the game. 

Keep sieges need to be more....EPIC!  It seems like devs are leaning toward that with the recent discussions of the addition of more siege mechanics and breakaway keep walls, which is awesome.  I also think that keeps should be much, much, much more difficult to take than they are currently.  As it is now, a zerg can go bang on a door for 10 minutes and the keep is virtually theirs.  Even with some resistance it is not difficult to take a keep.  This should not be the case.  Sieging a keep should be extremely difficult.  Something that players should expect to be at for quite some time.  Does anyone remember DAoC and how long it took to siege just a single keep?  It made the game feel more in depth, and drew players in.  It gave them more of a sense of accomplishment than the current system in WAR does.  Tons of preparation had to go into the sieging of a keep, and that's the way it should be.  The days of taking a mass of numbers to a keep to take it should be gone. 

Here are some things that could make the keep sieges better:
  • Increase the Lord difficulty, let him loose baby!  Scale him up based on number of attackers or defenders.
  • Increase the amount of hitpoints the doors and walls would have, perhaps on a scale that coincides with the number of defenders?? 
  • Make the oil harder to breakdown, and hit for more damage.  I'm tired of seeing slayers and choppas beat on doors with no real threat of dying.
  • Give incentive to actually claiming a keep!  Give a guild a stat bonus, xp bonus, or something that promotes them to claiming and upgrading a keep
  • How about a player catapult? As seen in the opening cinematic.  How sweet would that be?
  • Increase the number of siege points to more than just the door.  Give defenders more reasons to worry than just the front gate.
  • Let's see some moats! 
If ideas like the above were implemented making it more difficult to successfully take a keep it would push the city sieges back, taking them away from being the constant siege that they currently are.  Isn't that what everyone wants?  A more epic feel?  To be totally immersed by the game?  I really believe things like this would go a long way to sustaining a more fruitful life of Warhammer Online.  The more subscribers are immsersed into the game, the better it will be perceived in the community.  Thus generating greater revenues and a larger player base. 

What ideas do you propose for a better keep siege? 


  1. Good stuff, Vizo. There is so much real estate inside those keeps they should add something more inside to get people fighting and moving about the grounds as opposed to "knocking" on the door.

    What I learned from the Dev Q&A I attended at Games Day ...

    There are no plans on destructible walls. The artwork revamp would be massive to undertake and is backburnered. This came from Mike Wyatt.

    We asked about Orcapults ... being able to launch players over the keep walls. We got a "no comment" answer pretty succinctly. Which IMO means it's something they are working on or is on a short list.

  2. That's a little discouraging to hear about the walls. I'm sure we can all understand artwork revamp taking time, perhaps with the new skaven zone we will see some of that.??

  3. One of us specifically asked about destructible walls, doors, etc. Mike said that if they were going to do it they would start with the doors which would be easier to do since they are an object that is being attacked.

    They could created some simple new graphics to show the doors at certain strength rates and apply them to all keeps. Easy.

    Walls and towers are another story since many keeps are unique, walls are not a static size ... so most likely new graphics would need to be created for each wall for every keep in the game.

    He didn't say it would never happen, just that it would require a lot of resources.