I feel as if they can't be OP. Reason being is that both sides, Order and Destruction, have access to them. If you really feel they are that overpowering, roll one. Zealots and Runepriests have better single target healing, and insta cast heals. This enables them to heal themselves on the run. AM and Shaman have good group utilities in buffs and hots. DoKs and WPs have the group heal. Why must a "squishy" healer have the best of everything? As a DoK, I certainly can't run around as heal spec and expect to effectively heal my group. I have to stand there and just take it like a man. This is why they wear heavy armor.
People argue that they are melee healers, and as such should have to melee in order to heal their group. Honestly I don't get this really at all. Should AM's and Shaman have to DoT up people in order to heal their group? After all, that's how their mechanic works. If you really want DoK's and WP's to melee only, there are some big changes that would have to happen, such as the below:
- Change regen rate of Soul Essence
- Make Rend Soul a group heal
- Add SE regen to offhand weapons, not just books / chalices
- Rend Soul / Consume Essence may have to ignore armor
If anyone can please provide rational ideas to the so called problem, please feel free to present them. Other than that, stop your whining.
This post contained a lot of opinion and very little fact as well as no numbers what so ever.
ReplyDeleteIf the squishy healers at least had enough of a single target heal to keep themselves alive with a few dps beating on them, especially with a group heal spamming melee-char in their group, then I might agree with you. As it is now, squishys get cc'd and/or killed instantly which leave only the melee-healers standing. The squishies class potential is never reached as they are usually dead. Dead people don't heal. The end result is that, group healers or not, your group and even single targets receive way more healing if you have a healer that can stand a beating.
If you actually spec out a high RR DoK/WP for melee they're pretty goddamn ridiculous. They were designed to be like that. The problem with the class is that their group heal is so stupidly overpowered that NO ONE plays them as a melee healer past T3. It's WAY easier to accumulate renown in the early stages of T4 by group healing, but that doesn't mean their melee healing is gimped EXCEPT in comparison. Do you remember melee healing in T3? Did you not feel like an unkillable god? That's the intent, imho, behind the class, not holding still and taking it on the chin while you pump out the same ability over and over and over again.
ReplyDeleteChanges~
-Cut group heal effectiveness in half or double the cast time.
Done. Balanced class. Want an alternative?
-Change SE/RF to a Grudge/Hate type mechanic. The more you have built up the more effective your SE/RF using abilities become.
This also puts the DoK/WP back into a position where they're in melee to regen SE/RF because it really won't be staying at full if they're mashing the group heal button. Also, since it doesn't affect their main melee heal, more players will gravitate towards that spec and fall back on the group heal button in emergencies (which really, at it's power level, is all it should be used for).
Currently, when I see a DoK/WP join a scen I'm a little elated that we're going to have some badass heals and I probably won't ever die if I stay in range of them. This feeling is simply not right. I don't get the same feeling with any of the other healing classes because I know they aren't using a group heal crutch. The class is broken due to the potency of a single ability, hence, it needs to go so the class can shine as it's designed and intended to.
I think the group heal cost should be increased to 75 (from 55), and the bonus/penalty from Devine Fury increased slightly (35/30 maybe). The channeled attack/heal should be moved to the melée heal tree, and the tactic to increase the two healing attacks should be made standard. Maybe the tactic reduces the effectiveness and makes them 100' group heals or something. Also mirror the DoK drain.
ReplyDeleteAs I am largely ignorant of the DoK as a class all I can say is I'm rolling one and levelling up so I can enjoy the OP before it is nerfed. I say this as someone who really likes to heal but, as was said above, am tired of being the healer (RP) who is a) Dead or b) outhealed by every other class with any type of healing ability... Maybe I suck as an RP, but it sure is discouraging to be unable to defend yourself or really help out. I had more fun and did just as much healing (almost) dps specced. But that hardly makes you popular in the sc's.
ReplyDeleteBut I digress. No, actually I do not digress because I had no point to make. Rant over :)
The problem of all the "armoured healer are better" discussion, in my eyes is that the armoured healer even in the hands of the most incompetent healer can bring acceptable healing. The same player, playing any other kind of healer, is dead and thus does no healing at all.
ReplyDeleteI personally play both a Zealot and a Warrior Priest and i find both of them to be very interesting healers. On my Zealot, i am useful when my group is advancing and can also heal and survive when retreating, a feature not available to my WP.
In any moving battle, the WP has to stop for each "real" heal. Of course, when timing it well (and abusing any lag), you won't stop for long, but you're still averaging to walking speed where everybody else is running. My Zealot has the flash heal. It might be a bit heavy on the AP cost side, but it quite often allows me or a group mate to stay alive while moving, whereas on my WP death would have been certain.
That and some other nifty gadgets (despite the still cumbersome nature of the rituals) give my Zealot a flexibility which my WP is badly lacking.
The WP excels when there's limited movement, like in a small scenario or a fight at a fixed position. Additionally, when my group consists of uncommunicative morons who have no idea what they are doing, the armour of the WP allows me to just tank one (good) or more (bad) enemies who got through and my team doesn't care for. On my Zealot i have to be positioned properly, watch the enemy and make sure none gets to me and call my group to pick off those enemies which break through, before they can finish me off.
So, grouped with decent players and being in the hands of a halfway skilled player, the Zealot also is a potent healer, his lack of armour is more than compensated by higher flexibility. (And some fun gadgets which the WP i missing. )
In the hands of a bad player or grouped with people who yet have to learn the words teamwork and coordination the armoured healer wins due to being more durable.
Thus in short:
- Good player with a Zealot: (very) good healer.
- Good player with a WP: good healer.
- Bad player with a WP: acceptable healer.
- Bad player with a Zealot: dogfood, lousy healer.
This in my eyes sums it up. There is no balancing issue when both classes are played well. The problem rather is that armoured healers have a better lower end performance.
As a RP of a mere 51RR, I had never played a WP or a DoK, but was always puzzled by the fact that I just couldn't get near the WPs in healing. I know it's just a number, but no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't get close. Until I was told that they had a 1 sec group heal, with a 1.5 sec cooldown, which then explained why I saw 2 WP's in groups. Why use anything else?
ReplyDeleteThe WP can a more forgiving healer, in the hands of average player. We tend to have a lot of average players though.
I tend to have to spend a lot of my RA's on mitgrating damage, since I will rarely have a guard.
You play a RP? Keep in mind, when set up properly, your mere presence (oki, you casting healing skills and procs of your skills) also increases the healing of other healers by 25%.
ReplyDeleteI rarely see a RP not using Blessig of Grungni, and that's for a good reason.
Oki, the 25% are pure theory. In practice, i would account 10% to 15% of other healers healing to the RP if the RP is set up correctly and doing his job.
Now if you take 15% of the WPs healing, remove it from his score and add it to yours, things might look quite different, right?
Also, the WP produces a constant flow of healing. And that's where he is and stays. Either the damage taken is below that and all is find, or the damage spikes above that and everything goes to hell. On my Zealot, i have a few "emergency options", can heal on the move, etc.
Anyways, my prefered combination is an armoured healer and a cloth healer together.
When playing my WP, i enjoy being just a little behind the frontline. Hostile DDs try to break through to go for the healers. And stop on me. As long as i survive the beating, i still provide a constant flow of healing. Being attacked even helps me by boosting my healing and creating fury. At the same time, the cloth healer further behind can still do his job properly, as long as his positioning is correct. (And he watches his surroundings. A rogue enemy DD who missed me is a real threat. )
When playing my Zealot, things are just the other way around. I enjoy the Disciple further in front. I keep him alive and thus make sure the rest also gets healing from him. I try to stay rather safe, and when things go bad, i am the one to save the day, as the disciple can "only" do great group healing while being semi-stationary.
And since i can't edit, a small addendum on that you have to spend a lot of RAs on mitigating damage:
ReplyDeleteThe very same is true for any good WP. Talismans: Wounds if below 7k. After that armour all the way with only (perhaps) healcrit on the shoulders.
Renown spec: all aimed for survival with perhaps a little healcrit along.
Not a single point of renown and no talisman for willpower. No ammount of willpower allows a dead healer to heal. (In case of doubt, the last remaining point of renown goes into toughness, not into willpower. )